I have a man-crush on my Traeger Pellet Grill

Wade's Traeger Junior Pellet Grill

I have to admit I was really skeptical when I got a call out of the blue a couple of months back from Bruce Bjorkman, the Marketing Director at Traeger Grills and all around BBQ god.  He’d checked out the UltimateFoodie Podcast and asked if I would be into reviewing a Traeger Grill – he asked for my address and a few days later one was on my doorstep.  After my wife and I put it together (not too tough of an assembly job) I was anxious to get cooking.  It’s been a love affair ever since.  Bruce has become a friend and a favorite UltimateFoodie.com guest as well/

The Traeger Grill is a different kind of animal from my gas grill or from my charcoal grill in that it runs on compressed “pellets” made of different hardwoods.  Instead of adding chips to get flavor, the pellets function as fuel and flavoring all at once and the smokey flavor you get from the Traeger is outstanding.  Coolest of all is that you have your choice of a ton of different “flavors” of pellets including Hickory, Alder, Apple, Cherry, Maple, Onion, Garlic, Mesquite, Grape Vine and more.  I have found myself mixing and matching chips like I would spices in a rub to get subtle flavoring combinations in my grilled food.

The Traeger is really set up for “Barbecuing” as opposed to “Grilling”  it is all about indirect heat provided by a small auger-fed firebox with a blower – so no direct flames are ever all that close to your food.  The Traeger Grill is essentially a convection over powered by natural wood and with the associated wood smoke flavors. This convection action also makes it possible to do some nice baking on the Traeger – I have used mine to make some dynamite hot sandwiches, baked potatoes and best of all PIZZA.  Traeger actually partners with Papa Murphy’s Pizza and it is a winning combination for sure.

Traeger Pellet Grills are not something you can pick up at Walmart – they are not cheap – but are worth every penny.  They are hand made in the USA by folks in Oregon here in the great North West with pride.  If you are  a serious outdoor cook, I highly recommend that you pick one up either directly from Traeger at http://www.traegergrills.com or through one of their local dealers.  Tell them Wade from UltimateFoodie sent you and before long you will have a man-crush on your Traeger Grill too.

I’ll do some follow up posts with recipes and reviews of the food I have made on my Traeger in coming weeks.

Comments

  1. Sadly your article contains a fallacy: Traegers are now made in China. The Barish Fund purchased Traeger last year and outsourced the manufacturing, in the process laying of dozens of hardworking Oregonians. Now the craftsmanship is shoddy and design is falling away from the original, quintessential innovation that Traeger once stood for. Hopefully you and other Traeger lovers will unite and attempt to bring Traeger back to America. Please send all comments to [email protected]

    Brian
    Vancouver, WA

  2. Bruce Bjorkman says:

    Brian doesn't know what he's talking about at all. Due to the US Government's imposition of a tariff on steel, which drove prices of domestic steel out of sight, Traeger had to make a tough decision-raise prices and become uncompetitive, or outsource and keep the prices at a reasonable level.
    We polled our dealers and they told us to outsource, rather than raise our prices.

    So far as the workmanship is concerned…I used an outsourced grill ALL SUMMER LONG and it performed as good or even better than anything produced in Oregon. The workmanship was as good or even better than stateside made grills.

    What Brian does not realize is that LONG AGO, you had to attach the legs to the first Traeger grills manufactured in the 1990s.

    The performance, flavor and quality of Traeger Grills remains the same-regardless of where they are manufactured.

  3. Hey Brian – I am sorry that you are obviously dealing with some personal issues with Traeger – I am still a fan and the grill that I cook on all the time has been nothing but awesome for me. It still produces the best grilled food I have ever made and I am beyond happy with the construction compared to every other grill I have owned.

    We welcome all comments here as long as people can keep things civil and of course we always welcome anyone to respond. I see Bruce from Traeger has been in and responded.

  4. Gentlemen please let's dispense with assumptions about what I do and do not know, or whether or not I have personal issues with Traeger. Allow me to correct some of your ill thought out assumptions:

    1. I have owned and used Traegers for years…started with an 060 and moved up to a Big Tex, and now added an Executive 125…All of these had excellent craftsmanship and design.
    2. Wade, I have no “personal issue” with Traeger. I will continue to use my Traegers because they provide absolutely the best BBQ period.
    3. I am related to a distributor so, Bruce, am very familiar with the recent policy changes and design changes. I am also intimately familiar with the margins, so your tariff position does not hold water. There were ways to remain profitable and keep the operation stateside, such as import raw steel and retain manufacturing, streamline the manufacturing process, etc. If you are at all familiar with polling, your results are only reflective of the question asked: “Would you rather we make grills in China or add $200 to the wholesale cost?” No brainer here.
    4. Having assisted in assembly of the “new” models, I can say first hand that workmanship is variable and at times shoddy. We have had to bring units back to Traeger that came out of the box broken or blemished, had to redrill attachment holes, and have units repainted. Never had to do that with a stateside unit. Perhaps, Bruce, you have lucked out with your imported Traeger; congratulations.
    5. Another incorrect assumption, Bruce, is that I am aware that you had to attach legs to early Traegers.

    All of this is patently immaterial to my original post, BTW. I am not on the Traeger payroll, as you are, so my point was as a consumer and an American. This was a plea to return to the domestic production of an innovative product by examining process efficiencies that can offset increase in materiel costs, to some degree. Will profit margins decline from previous years, perhaps, but the quality and reputation of Traeger grills will continue to make it a profitable venture. The unfortunate reality is that to the Traeger informed there is an upheaval of dissatisfaction with the business decision of the Barish Fund to outsource, and with the general quality of the new products, not to mention the absence of grills and parts due to problems in the China plant (the corrections which reportedly won't be seen in the States for another 6 weeks).

    Brian

  5. come on guys no reason to argue fire up the charcoal and make it happen

  6. Brian, I'm with you brother. I'm lucky to have a Traeger produced in the USA. Believe it or not, this was THE deciding factor for me when I chose my Lil Tex over a Big Green Egg back in 2007. The BGE was/is manufactured in Mexico.

  7. Hey guys…

    I'm sorry you are unhappy with Traeger's decision to produce parts out of country. However, let's not pretend they are alone here.

    Do I wish they were 100% American made and assembled ? sure
    Would I pay 2x more for my grill because of it ? I love the flavor – but not that much.

    I'd like to move the discussion back to the food if we can. That is what the site is about.

  8. I was all set to buy a Junior but now I'm all stops envisioning an instalation put together nightmare. I live in Portland, OR and was ready for some BBQing this summer. I'll do some more research from new Traeger buyers first now.

  9. They aren't that hard to assemble. It took my wife and I about 45 minutes.

  10. bob tood says:

    I purchased an 075 just a week ago with a 180 degree thermostat. it will not hold the temp at any setting. Can anyone help me. I called the factory and they give me one answer and i call the outlet store from whom i purchased it from and they give me another answer. neither one the same???????????????

  11. Did you have any luck on this yet? If not, let me know. I know some folks there who have been great at answering my questions.

    – Wade

  12. I have an 075 also. You may want to be a little more specific about holding temperature. Is it running away with you? If so, then clean the pot. Temperatures are relative. The thermostat is measuring temperature where the sensor is installed. I have found the sensor reads somewhat cooler than the thermometer on the grill door. I also use an internal grill thermometer and have found that usually the temperature inside is hotter than either the electronic sensor or the installed thermometer.
    …So first, if the temperature is running away clean out the pot. If your just seeing a little delta-temp between the electronic sensor and the installed thermometer relax and use the grill. Part of grilling is (as I'm sure you know) art and part is chemistry/physics.
    …I didn't know about the China thing….I always look for Made in USA and I am willing to pay more for Made in the USA and sometimes do without if I can't find Made in the USA!!!

  13. I work with many different companies who manufacture many different products both domestically and abroad. The dirty little secret among them is that the quality level of the the products being outsourced is often times difficult to compete with. This is not my opinion, I’m just telling you what all my clients are telling me. The basic overall design of the Traeger makes it a particularly easy product to outsource and have it produced exactly to the companies expectations. If there is a noticeable change in the way it’s fabricated it is my opinion that is was a cost cutting decision made by Traeger.

  14. I have a Traeger Jr. I recently won in a radio contest. So far it has been an interesting experience. Everything I have cooked on it has been great, but trying to follow any recipes is nearly impossible. It seems that it is just not capable of reaching/maintaining the needed temperatures. I have found that smoke will reach about 100-125, medium about 200-230 and high about 300-330. This is not all bad, though. I cooked a pork shoulder on medium (avg. 210) for about 6 hours and it was excellent. The problem? I discovered the fire had gone out because a hole had opened up where the pellets feed from the hopper, leaving quite a few around the edge of the hopper. Luckily the meat was done!

  15. What is our outside air temperature like ? If your outside temperatures are cold (45 or less, it can really impact the ability of your grill to hit the right temperature. Traeger actually has some suggestions on how you can insulate your grill to overcome this. Can do some creative things like user water heater insulating blankets on the outside of the gril area that can keep the heat inside. I’ve had my heat on high up to 550-600 before and seen the medium setting run in the 300 range.

    I’d suggest you give support a call and let them know you are having trouble.

  16. Ernie Svec says:

    i just purchased a little tex love it. i noticed in you sales brochure you show cooking Pizza.

    1. What to you cook them on?
    2. where to you get one?
    3. Recipies and which pellets?

    Thanks, Ernie

  17. Ernie, I’ve had great luck with Papa Murphy’s pizzas – if you ask at PM’s they even have a special pan they can give you, although the stock paper pan the pizza comes in works as well.

    I’ve also made my own pizzas with fresh dough – brush it with olive oil and lay straight on the grate and cook for a few minutes, then flip and top, close the lid and continue to bake on high until cheese is melted and the crust is golden brown.

    The Traeger is essentially a convection oven that ads great smoky flavor 🙂

    I’ve emailed Bruce from Traeger to come in and share some wisdom – stay tuned.

  18. I am looking at getting a new Trager grill and I wondering if I should go for a Junior or Lil Tex? I really just cook for 2 plus a few parties throughout the year. Any advice with advantages and disadvantages would be great!

  19. I’d go with the Lil Tex. With a rack (the Treager rack is an excellent product) it can handle 6 racks of baby backs, or 6 – 8 good sized burgers, or about 20 chicken drumsticks, 6 nice rib-eyes or a 12 – 15# turkey. The good news is it will also do an excellent job on 1 rack of ribs, 2 burgers, half a chicken or a turkey breast. A friend has a Big Tex and I think the Lil Tex has better temp control and unless you’re feeding an army it will hold plenty. I haven’t cooked on a Junior, but LOVE my Lil Tex and for a family of 4 with plenty of dinner guests its perfect.

  20. Frank,
    If I were you I’d consider either the Junior or the Lil Tex/Lil Tex Elite. My brother has a bigger grill and while it’s great for cooking mass quantities of food, for the average 3 person meal he says it is just way too big and uses more pellets/takes longer to get to temp. I have a Lil Tex and that is plenty big to throw 16 hamburgers on at a time or even smoke a whole turkey. I’ve never personally used the Junior but it looks a little small for serious entertaining. As far as the Elite, I know it’s alot more money but you do get a digital thermostat and dome thermometer, which can both be added to a standard Lil Tex (for a price of course). Good luck on your search and if you have any other questions feel free to email me at [email protected] .

  21. I have a stateside made unit, and I am very familier with the overseas made units…. if both units were on the showroom floor, side by side, I would absolutly pay the extra 200-300 dollars for the solid made unit. better quality, american made, local support from the “hands on” guys at the factory. all like it used to be.
    I an sure the money they may save by making the stamped out units over seas, they will lose in sales of the total units sold overall.
    traeger grills are worth the price we pay for them…. if you like good food and know what good food is!!

  22. I’ve used, sold and demo’ed Traegers for five or six years, when I worked for a dealer. I was disappointed when production moved to China, and I agree that the build quality is not up to the American-made units, but the cooking quality has not changed a bit. Besides, as I drove my Japanese car to the store after watching my Taiwanese TV, powered by my Korean DVD player while wearing a pair Asics made in China, it became apparent that what was most important was the whole chicken I’d just pulled off my Lil Tex. High for 45, smoke for 45, baste with Traeger Mandarin Glaze and enjoy. As always, a simple recipe, and the finest chicken I’ve ever cooked.

  23. Jason Neal says:

    I am in the market for a Pellet Grill and will gladly pay double for a unit that is made in the USA only, I am still researching, out of all the Pellet Grills that I have researched Traeger is on the top of the list as far as the design, but I will keep searching or build my own.

  24. Roman Zak says:

    Bought a Traeger last spring and was disappointed to find out it was built in China – website said “Made in USA”. Secondly was disappointed with how cheaply made it was when putting it together. It didn’t help that on the second barbecue the igniter failed. This spring when I pulled the cover off for the first barbecue of the season there was a rust mark all around the lid opening. Have been looking at U.S. made Mak grill.

  25. Jason—you’re in luck! MAK GRILLS of Dallas, OR makes an AMERICAN MADE WOOD PELLET GRILL! It’s got more bells and whistles on it that you can count on two hands. Check out the website…www.makgrills.com
    It’s an unbelievable cooking machine! I’ve been cooking on pellet grills since 1991, and the MAK by far outcooks, and outshines any other brand of pellet grill available today!

  26. Not being made by AMERICANS has me looking for used Traegers, if a source in KS comes through I will post. New China style cookers have screws over welds and thinner gauge steel, but still cost the same.

  27. I have bought 3 Traegers in all and all USA built, as soon as I saw one cooking and ate food off it I had to have one! I still have 2 of them an 020 and a 125 and they are excellent smokers! I recently borrowed a chinese built 075 while I remodeled my 125 (thats another story) anyway it is a disappointment to see how bad the fit and finish is now. I doubt I would buy one now even though the one I used still worked ok the lid was held on with small sheet metal screws and the shelf held the lid open so far it wouldn’t hold a consistent temp at all and smoking temp was very inconsistent and I feel it was the huge amount of air leak around the lid. My impression was they look cheap now and feel flimsy but still cost and arm and a leg that’s not good in my opinion. Apparently Traeger has turned their back on their loyal dealers also since anybody can become a dealer now if they buy 4-5 grills they are a dealer that hurts the small guy that helped build Traeger. We have several dealers now in my town and it seems like its quantity is more important than quality now its a chinese built unit. Same old thing in retail now a days sub out of country and stab the little guys.

  28. Oldschool says:

    Wow – what a thread. Yea, they dont really advertise that the grills are made in China. PGO (www.pelletgrilloutlet.com used to be http://www.traegeroutlet.com) now offers like 3 or 4 American made grills and I got my Memphis Pro there after using Traeger grill for years. Absolutely love it! Took as look at the MAK too – both looked great!

    Anyway, got to go eat some ribs now!

  29. Carl Anderson says:

    Hello,

    My family is looking at buying a pellet smoker and I thought Traeger was US made. I’m sad to hear they decided to leave the states. Boo, Traeger. Anyways, I can’t wait to try this Maple Peach glaze on a pork shoulder when we get our smoker!

    Here’s to American bbq on American bbqs!

    Carl

  30. I’ve been looking to purchase a Traeger and now find out they are produced in china.

    This is definately a luxury item and I will not support a company that does not support America.

    I will stick with my current propane setup.

  31. I have had a Trager BB055 since last spring because a friend had such good luck with his. Good food, like most users have reported. I know because I have been a guest of his many times.

    The fact that they were made in Mount Angel, OR was a big selling point. Found out yesterday they are made in China. What a letdown. Then I went to this site and really got ticked off when I read the attitude some people have towards products from China. Such as the remark by “activated charcoal” which I assumed he meant that he did not give a hoot about American made products to support our economy just as long as he could fill his own belly with tasty food. Also “Bruce” did not encourage with his concluding remark. It is this type of attitude that has helped to weaken our own industries.
    I would have continued on with our old primative methods rather than to put out the money to support China. Yea, I do buy China, but only when there is no other option. A Trager was an option if I had KNOWN.

    I still think a good old cast iron griddle and a 1.5 inch steak, is hard to beat.

  32. Steve, not sure what you didn’t like about Bruce’s comment or tone. Bruce is a grilling/bbq ing expert (competition seasoned) and he felt strongly enough about the difference in quality between American-made vs outsourced that he left Traeger and went to work promoting an actual American made product.

  33. BTW – I am not saying that Traeger’s make bad food – they don’t. I use one and it’s a good grill. That said – the quality has fallen off since they moved offshore with construction in terms of both materials and assembly to the point where the people who take their barbecuing seriously are moving to other brands. If I had a couple grand laying around, I’d have a MAK – those things are amazing. Being able to sear and slow cook with a pellet grill – NICE

  34. Wade, what I was gettig at regarding the comment made by Bruce was that it appeared that he figured it made no difference where the grill was made, since the food would taste the same. I already said the food was good, my objection is not to the taste but to a prevailing attitude in this country regarding foreign imports that says “What do we care if it is foreign made, it does the job and is cheaper”. I try to support domestic companies as much as possible and steer clear of those companies that build a reputation and then outsource. Try to buy an American made tire. It is possible, but the dealers invaribly try to convince you about the Chinese quality.

  35. I just bought a Traeger Lil’ Tex Elite 07E, and my parents bought the Texas 075, both through the Costco Roadshow.

    While I can’t comment on the previous US-made units, or the initial run of China-made units, I can say that both of these particular units went together quickly and appeared to have a consistent build quality and decent hardware. The materials seem appropriate for the task at hand. The paint is near flawless, and the welds consistent.

    Assembly involved attaching the four legs with eight bolts, the lid handle with two nuts, and the chimney with two bolts. Per the manual, I briefly verified the auger, fan, and igniter functioned. Then, I loaded some pellets in the hopper and followed through with the initial firing and seasoning (burning off mfr oils, etc). The first meal was a Kashi-brand frozen pizza, which turned out quite good. Love at first bite.

    Perhaps the USA units were more over-built, and the China units were spec’d lighter to reduce freight costs. There were likely QA issues with the initial runs. I don’t know.

    Geopolitical issues best left for another forum (and I do agree there are serious ramifications to globalization and the balance of economies – as well, pursuing a 100% USA-made lifestyle would be a worthy goal), the units we purchased are meeting and exceeding expectations.

  36. Barish sold out Traeger…these Costco roadshows are ridiculous. Traeger told dealers they were supporting them, then sent out reps to work on commission who bash dealer pricing and push the sale hard, not supporting local dealers. Traeger blew it, I miss the Traeger family, Barish is busy looking at the forest and not the trees.

  37. mcdyccp says:

    I got my 07E at a Costco roadshow a few months ago. Have had no issues with quality of build and am absolutely amazed by the quality of food produced by the grill. As far as the Costco roadshows not supporting local dealers, I have convinced at least 3 of my friends to purchase Traeger grills from local distributors because they were impressed with what I was able to cook. Additionally, I am frequenting my local distributor to buy accessories and pellets. This is business that the local store would not have if Traeger had not pushed their product at Costco.

  38. I just bought a Treager yesterday at a Costco roadshow. It was a floor model and already put together. We did a little research before hand and decided to get it knowing it was outsourced and made in china. My husband followed the instructions on the how to get started part and we are cooking (brisket) on it now as I type. I would have liked our Treager to have been made in America but it wasn’t. Am I sorry I got it because it was made in china? No! This is what I can afford, that is the reality of it for many american like me.

  39. I agree with the later posts here, I also fell bad because this product is made in China and I purchased one. I am a whole hearted American who serves our country with Honor and believes we’ve all put ourselves in this out sourcing situation! I believe if we weren’t soo quick to sue over every little thing, to make sure we were satisfied, there would be more made in America products. If I owned a business and had lawsuits’ over small idiosyncrasies that could be fixed without making money from the manufacturing company, I’d out source it too. Most Americans hate talking on the phone to someone that we all know isn’t here in the U.S., so we normally forego the same complaints or issues we would press further if these products were made in America. I say quit complaining about how I live in Florida and I live in Colorado and my Traeger cooks differently and try to have this product brought back to BBQ land U.S.A.!! I believe this about a lot of products. I’ve also read on the internet that the Traeger is just an outdoor oven and I say to you “if you don’t cook out doors your not much of a man“.J

  40. The whole sad truth is that another American company has pimped its production to the Chinese. I bought a Traeger several months back and had I known they were being built in China I would’ve bought from a local AMERICAN competitor.

  41. I was pretty set on buying one of these. Had a friend rave about Traeger over the weekend so I started doing some research. I will wait now and find something else. Made in America needs to start meaning something again! Don’t give me the cost lie either. I pay more for American made and I am even more excited about it when the product I am buying proudly displays it!!

  42. I was just about to buy a Traeger Texas grill when I came upon this post. Thanks to Brian’s comments I ended up buying a Mak 1. The cost was about about $100 more than the Taeger, but I could not be happier. Growing up in a Pennsylvania Steel town, I am particularly sensitive when I here how US steel is outrageously priced. The fact of the matter is foreign steel was being dumped here. For those not familiar with this practice, it is when they sell a product for less than the production and distribution cost. Basically they sell the product at a loss to gain market share or to drive out competition. A lot of honest hard working people lost their livelihoods, and many communities have be devastated all so corporations can maximize their profits. The way I see it is if I spend the extra $100 on a US made grill, that money has a much better chance of coming back to me in my business. Not to mention that we as taxpayers will not have to pay unemployment benefits and for trade adjustment job training. Oh yeah, more Americans working means a broader tax base and makes it less likely my taxes will go up. On second thought Brian probably saved me money. Thank you so very much Brian!!!! As for Bruce Bjorkman, you can kiss my, well you know what. People like you have destroyed the lives of so many all in the quest for the almighty dollar.

  43. Have the “Big Tex” LOVE it, great quality! I’ve had it for 10+ years had to replace the lighter and I upgraded to a digital controller. I wasn’t sure what to do with the temp probe, so it just sits in the wood box and I’ll put it on the grill when I need to control the temp – why you ask? I can get another 70-80 degrees if I take the probe off of the grill, it’ll run full blast and get into the 500+ degree temp on a warm day (not cold).

    Because the grill is so big and I’m only usually cooking some dinner on it and not a big party, my wife decided to buy me for my birthday the newest small grill (lil tex? – sorry, I’m not a Traeger geek so I don’t know the proper terms – lol), anywhosile, it took me about 40 minutes to put it together, after about 5 uses the PLASTIC handle on the pellet fell off (crap) so now I don’t have a handle on it (can anyone tell me how to get it back on without disassembling the whole grill?), now the lid handle bolts are pulling out and will soon fall off).

    I really cannot believe the design of the pellet box, you fill it all the way up and walk away from the grill thinking it’ll cook for quite some time only to find out that some of the pellets went through but the rest are sitting on the “ledges” inside – so you have to had scoop them into the auger – WOW, really poor thinking and design.

    A couple of buddies of mine also have the same grill and the same types of issues, we were going to have a “welding party” and put welded handles on them.

    I only have the “smoke”, “low”, “high” switch, but “high” isn’t very high. You CANNOT tell me that the quality hasn’t suffered – rather it be made in china (I don’t like that) or just scrimping on quality.

    It still has that great Traeger taste, but I am giving the small one to my son and will buy a “Made in America” and pay the extra $100-$200 that everyone is talking about – this one was not “cheap” pricewize, but “very cheap” quality.

    I am NOT a dealer or affiliated with any manufactures (I’m a computer geek), but have personally taken friends to the local Traeger dealer and bought 8 and had a couple of other friends buy them on their own (so 10 plus the 2 that I’ve got).

    I am taking my nephew to get his first pellet grill and it’ll not be Traeger – lost my loyalty and I’ll never recommend another unless the quality comes back, but now there are several GREAT options that are USA. Lovin my “Big Texas” grill.

    Shame on Traeger!

    Come on, who was complaining about the price when they were quality (I did a little, but bit the bullet and would do it again for the better quality), I was showing mine off every chance I had and felt part of the “Elite”, with the new one…uhhh…. hide it, we have company coming over!

  44. Traeger Question; Purchased one on Friday, cooked pork ribs on Saturday following cook book. Smoked for 3 hours then 225 degrees for 4 hours. I was hoping the bones would just fall off the meat but it didn’t. Did I not cook it long enough?

  45. So, I had to try out my neighbors Traeger Grill – it’s an older model – small size thing. Heck, I only cook for 2-4 MAX as a rule. I love American made for the spirit of it all – I’m a Vet too. But, when a product goes up by 40% or more because an AMERICAN refuses to work for less the UNION SCALE – I gotta ask myself “THE” question? Did the economy, demanding Investors or a stubborn work-force trigger the Traeger move? Regardless – my chicken, beef, veggies, fish, pizza, taters are ALL AMERICAN MADE and “I” damn well do the cooking. So, yes, the product that comes “OFF” my grill is American Made. on a side note… You want to go Oregonian or whatever – I am sure Barish will entertain offers to buy the company so you can move it back? I’d imagine if you look at the books – if $20,000,000 net X 3 years provides a reasonable ROI – you might have a USA product again generating an 8% net ROI Annually? (Minus any “business as usual” lawsuits)

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